Gambling Pro & Con's - In World Debate

this NO CASINO LL LAW issue bothers the living shit out of me. i am serious. anti casino assholes, rightwing fucks are just everywhere in sl. these rightwing fuckes have the mind of some " spy on yer neighbor " mindset. yet they  think, they are " morally " correct by trying to make everyone believe their twisted arguements and follow those rules.

it was late, but i didn't feel up to do anything 'creating' wise or shopping ( yawns ).so i tp'd in to the #1 top most popular place according to the SL traffic numbers. and this what happend :

[0:51]  Kiz Flanagan: The gaming securities on WSE all dropped within half an hour - over 43 million linden dollars people lost in stock.[0:51]  You: omg???
[0:51]  Kiz Flanagan: yrly
[0:52]  You: 43mill here in sl?
[0:52]  Kiz Flanagan: Yup
[0:52]  Kiz Flanagan: All the SL stock markets that dealt in gaming securities are hurting big; might be the nail in the WSE coffin.
[0:53]  You: ohmy wow... can i take that info from you kiz and blog about that as well
[0:53]  Kiz Flanagan: You can, but it would be anecdotal - I only have second hand news, not actual figures. You should look into it a little more.
[0:53]  Kiz Flanagan: That's my legal advice ;)
[0:54]  Kiz Flanagan: http://www.wselive.com/
[0:54]  Kiz Flanagan: That's the WSE exchanges webby
[0:55]  Kiz Flanagan: They had almost all the casino stocks, because as this shows, all other stock exchanges saw them as too risky a commodity.
[0:55]  You: awesome.. i am making notes right now
[0:57]  Kiz Flanagan: I mean, just look at the market graph on the front - from over 500,000 market trade daily down to 120,000 in that day, in linden dollars.
[0:58]  Kiz Flanagan: But there are a few options: most traded gaming groups have their hands in other markets, first of all - real estate, etc.
[0:58]  You: i saw it... i cant even imagine what this is going to look like in a month ahead
[0:58]  Kiz Flanagan: Second, linden did not outlaw simulated gambling, they outlawed simulated gambling with any currency or item of value.
[0:58]  Kiz Flanagan: a system of free tickets that could be redeemed off-server for uh... "whatever"... ;) ... would still be viable.
[0:59]  Kiz Flanagan: This is what alot of the online poker rooms do.
[0:59]  Kiz Flanagan: It would take new scripting on the gaming machines, but it's very doable.
[0:59]  You: well yes but people are people and some disgruntled anti casino everything may snitch
[0:59]  You: yes and cost a lot of money
[0:59]  Kiz Flanagan: The best option is to combine that, with organized protests at all in-world linden properties.
[1:00]  Kiz Flanagan: It would comply entirely with their policy as written - all activity that is related to "items of value" would take place off linden servers.
[1:00]  Kiz Flanagan: Much like the SLExchange.
[1:00]  You: well they did in the past when no one bougth land because the prices went up skihigh
[1:01]  You: kiz i am taking notes on everything and off course i will not mention your last name in the blog
[1:01]  You: but this is something people want and need to read asap
[1:02]  Kiz Flanagan: Check my figures first, and as long as you do that, you can use my last name all you want
[1:02]  Kiz Flanagan: And my company, GMT+12 Consulting's, name ;)
[1:02]  Kiz Flanagan: lmfao
[1:02]  You: are you sure? i will!
[1:02]  You: awesome

[1:02]  Kiz Flanagan: Just check my facts.
[1:02]  Kiz Flanagan: I don't want to look like a dumbass ;)
[1:03]  You: :)
[1:03]  Kiz Flanagan: :P
[1:03]  You: i suppose hippie pay is still legal then ?
[1:04]  Kiz Flanagan: Oh yes.
[1:04]  Kiz Flanagan: There is no random chance or numbers involved in hippie pay.
[1:04]  You: but there is not a guarantee that you will paid neither
[1:05]  Kiz Flanagan: If it's what I think it is, it's where you take external surveys to make money?
[1:05]  Kiz Flanagan: That is totally legal still.
[1:05]  You: what about the taxes hippiepay should pay to the big man?
[1:05]  You: yes thats what it is
[1:05]  You: same as money land
[1:05]  Kiz Flanagan: Right
[1:05]  Kiz Flanagan: None of that involves games of chance, so it is not regulateable.
[1:06]  You: i see yes
[1:06]  Kiz Flanagan: The legal foible here is that while the money is not technically currency, it does allow americans and other countries that regulate gaming, to game. I just wish linden would make up their mind on whether or not they consider the linden dollar a true currency - they change their opinion as convenient.
[1:06]  Kiz Flanagan: Particularly as investors are involved.
[1:07]  Kiz Flanagan: "Simulated linden stock exchanges are allowable w/o regulation because the L Dollar is not a real currency"
[1:07]  Kiz Flanagan: "Gambling is not illegal because the L Dollar is a currency"
[1:07]  Kiz Flanagan: It's doublespeak.
[1:07]  You: well the investors are marketing online companies such as name brands coke, blockbuster, ipod etc
[1:07]  Kiz Flanagan: *is illegal
[1:08]  Kiz Flanagan: Linden has so far favored the simulated stock exchanges here, but in it's purest sense, this law bans them - they don't say as much, but the online stock market is also a game based on chance.
[1:09]  Kiz Flanagan: We will see if they decide to enforce it, or turn a head because it's good for their PR.
[1:09]  You: i am very impressed kiz, you have an very insightful knowledge
[1:10]  Kiz Flanagan: ty, I try to keep up with things here. It's my job ;)
[1:10]  You: thats really amazing and really people need to know these things
[1:10]  You: do you have a office here in world?
[1:11]  Kiz Flanagan: Ah, yes.
[1:11]  You: oh great, what is the slurl to it?
[1:11]  Kiz Flanagan: Where I store my many hats.
[1:11]  You: hehe
[1:12]  Kiz Flanagan: Uh, dunno - it's at Burdigala 179, 141, 200
[1:12]  You: ok i am making a huge notecard here
[1:12]  Kiz Flanagan: Or, Three Mayenne Plaza floor nine ;)
[1:21]  Kiz Flanagan: Anything in SL!
[1:21]  Kiz Flanagan: ('cept fake gambling)
[1:22]  You: yep and escorting
[1:22]  Kiz Flanagan: Well, it's SL, and it's legal for real in most of the world.
[1:22]  You: yes aside in the usa
[1:22]  Kiz Flanagan: Er, decriminilized, at least.
[1:22]  Kiz Flanagan: Aye
[1:23]  Kiz Flanagan: Dunno why! Americans had a great economy built around brothels in the 1700's thru the 1920s.
[1:23]  You: so i wonder miss Aminom if you support ageplay and escorting?
[1:23]  You: oh sure but they are puritans at heart
[1:23]  Kiz Flanagan: heh
[1:23]  You: officially speaking
[1:24]  Kiz Flanagan: Do I support them?
[1:24]  You: no i was asking the box
[1:24]  You: Aminom
[1:24]  Kiz Flanagan: Ah
[1:24]  You: who sits inside of it
[1:24]  Kiz Flanagan: lmao
[1:24]  You: lol

[1:25]  Kiz Flanagan: Actually, the facts on that box are wrong - gambling is legal in many countries, including the countries of several SL gaming owners. It's much more conplex than "illegal/legal."
[1:25]  Aminom Marvin: oh wow I was afk
[1:25]  Aminom Marvin: you people are actually talking.
[1:25]  You: yes we do
[1:25]  Aminom Marvin: it is illegal in the US, which is what matters.
[1:25]  Aminom Marvin: that is where the servers are.
[1:25]  Kiz Flanagan: Not all SL servers are in the US, actually.
[1:26]  Aminom Marvin: Don't like it, make your own version of SL elsewhere
[1:26]  Kiz Flanagan: There are also server farms in the UK.
[1:26]  Christblade Beresford: Not is some parts of US otherwise Vegas would not exist
[1:26]  Kiz Flanagan: Where it is legal, thank god.
[1:26]  Kiz Flanagan: Correct - it is a states-issue, in that country.
[1:26]  Aminom Marvin: Kiz: it doesn't matter. There's no way to segregate it. Also, the _company_ resides in the US, which is what is important.
[1:26]  Aminom Marvin: Kiz are you from the US?
[1:26]  Kiz Flanagan: Actually, there is, and no - legally, it does not matter.
[1:26]  Kiz Flanagan: No sir, though I did recieve my law degree there. I am an Irish citizen.
[1:27]  Aminom Marvin: i don'[t give a shit about internet lawyers.
[1:27]  Aminom Marvin: you aren't American, fag off.
[1:27]  Kiz Flanagan: lmao
[1:27]  You: why so hostile?
[1:27]  Aminom Marvin: make your own SL
[1:27]  Aminom Marvin: Because casinos have destroyed the mainland.
[1:27]  Aminom Marvin: they have gamed every system they can
[1:28]  You: did you knew that most of the sl builders were originally from france?
( Aminom claims to be a HUGE SL Builder, yet didn't knew about "Yadni Monde"! )
[1:28]  Kiz Flanagan: LOL!
[1:28]  You: thats all very unreasonable
[1:28]  Kiz Flanagan: LL is chartered as an international company, actually.
[1:28]  Kiz Flanagan: Facts, anyone?
[1:29]  Aminom Marvin: then, when advertising the casinos were banned, "Kasinos" did everythign they could to skirt it. By pushing and pushing the limits, they brought this on themselves
[1:29]  You: and you have a mind of a 10 yr old box sitter
[1:29]  Aminom Marvin: I am not the one stupid enough to gamble, am I?
[1:29]  You: do you think sl is a game?
[1:29]  Kiz Flanagan: How do you know -anyone- here gambles?
[1:29]  Kiz Flanagan: lmfao
[1:29]  You: you just told kiz to make her own game
[1:29]  Aminom Marvin: Kiz do you gamble
[1:29]  Kiz Flanagan: Nope.
[1:29]  Aminom Marvin: yes SL is a game, and I am winning it.
[1:30]  Kiz Flanagan: But I support the freedom to do so.
[1:30]  Christblade Beresford: I don't actually gamble but I do believe in the freedom of expression
[1:30]  Kiz Flanagan: Unless you count stock exchanges, in which case, I'm a very good gambler.
[1:30]  Aminom Marvin: do you have kasino owner friends?
[1:30]  Kiz Flanagan: No, and no.
[1:30]  Aminom Marvin: freedom of expression by making rigged gambling machines designed to milk money from people?
[1:30]  You: i do have casino friends
[1:31]  Aminom Marvin: so for you it is a personal interest.
[1:31]  Kiz Flanagan: LOL
[1:31]  Aminom Marvin: Without then you wouldn't give half a shit.
[1:31]  Christblade Beresford: which I thought SL was all about... and gambling is a lot less worse than some of the sexual practices I've seen advertised
[1:31]  You: anyone who enters a casino knows the possibility of the end game
[1:31]  You: win lose situation
[1:31]  Aminom Marvin: Gala: that doesn't make it moral.
[1:31]  Kiz Flanagan: That's a logically-false argument, Ami. Straw man logic.
[1:31]  Aminom Marvin: Your logic is deniable sir
[1:32]  You: ok since you bring up morals
[1:32]  Aminom Marvin: your argument is demonstrably false
[1:32]  Aminom Marvin: your premises are unsound
[1:32]  You: let me ask you this, what do you think about AV sex?
[1:32]  Aminom Marvin: your fallacies are profound
[1:32]  adammac Beck: i should like to gamble miss
[1:32]  Aminom Marvin: I don't like it. I think it is fucking funny though.
[1:32]  Kiz Flanagan: I think you need to go to university and maybe take an actuall logic class, Marvin ;)
[1:32]  Kiz Flanagan: *actual
[1:32]  Christblade Beresford: between consenting adults of same breed it should be allowed
[1:33]  Christblade Beresford: I stress however ADULTS
[1:33]  Aminom Marvin: Kiz, you are a damned lawyer. You basically admit that you are a decietful bastard.
[1:33]  Aminom Marvin: "same breed"? Meaning no interracial sex?
[1:33]  Christblade Beresford: and SPECIES/BREEDS
[1:33]  Kiz Flanagan: LOL!
[1:33]  Kiz Flanagan: No, I said I have a law degree - that would normally be a very good point!
[1:33]  Christblade Beresford: not what I ment
[1:34]  Aminom Marvin: even now you are being a decietful bastard by denying your lawyering.
[1:34]  Kiz Flanagan: I currently in the international relations field, career wise.
[1:34]  Christblade Beresford: humans and humans animals and animals
[1:34]  Aminom Marvin: Nobody cares about your credentials on the internet. It's just e-cock measuring if you mention them, and makes you look rediculous
[1:35]  You: sorry not talking to much.. i am making notes here
[1:35]  Lovy5777 Allen: im doin a donation box 4 poor children in Africa, would u like to make a donation or buy something?
[1:35]  Aminom Marvin: lol
[1:35]  Aminom Marvin: and the scam artist arrives
[1:35]  Christblade Beresford: it strikes me that you only reason you are here amin is to look for an arguement without having all the facts at hand
[1:36]  Christblade Beresford: question is Bingo gambling?
[1:36]  Kiz Flanagan: Yes.
[1:36]  Christblade Beresford: and yet in the UK its been legal for decades
[1:36]  Kiz Flanagan: And in the US.
[1:36]  Christblade Beresford: is the lottery gambling?
[1:36]  Aminom Marvin: Christblade, I experience SL. I see what gambling has done to it. Those are the only facts I need.
[1:36]  Kiz Flanagan: Oh my yes.
[1:36]  Aminom Marvin: what are your facts?
[1:37]  Aminom Marvin: how do casinos make SL better?
[1:37]  Christblade Beresford: I experience SL I own SL land as a cinema
[1:37]  You: why do you worry what an adult does in a casino ?
[1:37]  Aminom Marvin: you are a self-promotional ass
[1:37]  Kiz Flanagan: To use your own logic, Ani, "if you don't like it, buy sims and don't rent to casinos."
[1:37]  Aminom Marvin: what do you post in your profile? Positions.
[1:37]  Aminom Marvin: Here's what I have going right now - *Chair, Public Relations, for Relay for Life in Second Life (SLRFL) *Chief Operating Officer, LOOT! Business Network *General Director of Sinn Fein Supporters in SL *Tour Director - Virtual Museum of Modern Art *CEO GMT+12 Consultancy (Group coming when I have room for it in my list!)
[1:37]  Christblade Beresford: I have worked alongside gambling games on a small scale Sploaders mostly
[1:37]  Aminom Marvin: just trying to show off the size of your e-cock.
[1:38]  Kiz Flanagan: lmfao
[1:38]  Kiz Flanagan: OK
[1:38]  Kiz Flanagan: I see you contribute to my E-cock. Thank you.
[1:38]  Kiz Flanagan: In the form of relay for life, that is.
[1:38]  Aminom Marvin: wrong I just called you out on the self-promitional nonsense
[1:38]  Aminom Marvin: e-penis minus three inches.
[1:38]  Kiz Flanagan: It's not self promotion, it's business.
[1:39]  Christblade Beresford: I have not suffered any ill effects from doing so
[1:39]  Aminom Marvin: Whatever you want to call it.
[1:40]  Aminom Marvin: your entire profile is a masturbation to yourself
[1:40]  Aminom Marvin: 'm T.E. Lawrence, minus the british citizenship. In the RL, I work in International Relations, here I work in AV to AV relations! :) Irish national from Dublin City, Co. Dublin. Probably living abroad when you read this. Women's Grand Lodge Of Belgium
[1:40]  Aminom Marvin: your RL stuff
[1:40]  Kiz Flanagan: Ok..
[1:40]  You: you must have missed out on sl 4th birthday box sitter, if you call yourself a builder, i would like for you to sit down with the OG builders of Sl
[1:40]  Christblade Beresford: I have seen casinos in SL and walked straight past them they have bear me no feelings whatsoever as I said I believe it should be an adults right to make the right decisions.... I deplore the Nanny Culture
[1:41]  Aminom Marvin: OG builders will be obsolete in a few months.
[1:41]  You: and why do you think so?
[1:41]  You: because of the constant changes?
[1:41]  Aminom Marvin: sculpts will replace virtually everything.
[1:42]  You: well thats not a given yet because its not possible with a low prim count to build a mansion
[1:42]  Aminom Marvin: Christblade I bet you are a fan of objectivism too.
[1:42]  Aminom Marvin: Gala: yes it is.
[1:42]  Kiz Flanagan: You don't think that "I am currently taking commissions for custom sculpts and builds." and "http://slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=39010 See my picks for links to my stores." are they same thing? "Builder level 5. Texturizer level 2. Scripter level 5. Sculptor level 99."
[1:42]  Kiz Flanagan: *are the
[1:43]  You: no it is not. a house with 85 sculptie prims wont get on a 512 sq land
[1:43]  Aminom Marvin: they are advertisements. I don't say anything about my credentials. The skills list is a joke
[1:43]  Kiz Flanagan: Everyone masturbates in their profiles, including you - don't be a hypocrite. It's necessary for business as you well know.
[1:43]  Aminom Marvin: but however as we know, lawyers cannot understand comedy
[1:43]  Kiz Flanagan: lmfao
[1:43]  Kiz Flanagan: true.
[1:43]  Christblade Beresford: .
[1:44]  Christblade Beresford: nope as I said I believe in a persons right to lead both their rl and sl life in an appropriate manner without being forced to live it by a nanny culture. Watch or preferablly read 1984 and then I may deem you more worthy to speak to
[1:44]  Aminom Marvin: I masturbate in public. I don't need to have a profile to do the talking.
[1:44]  Aminom Marvin: I've read it. What is your point?
[1:44]  Gala Alva rolls her eyes at the leet kid
[1:44]  Aminom Marvin: I am also a strong opponent of banlink and other such systems.
[1:44]  Aminom Marvin: what do you think of banlink?
[1:45]  Christblade Beresford: yeah right if you had REALLY read your either a fool or you realise the importance of fighting against BIG BROTHER
[1:45]  Aminom Marvin: Instead of whining about casinos getting shut down, why not rally against banlink, which is truly orwellian?
1:45]  Aminom Marvin: also it isn't "chic" to talk about 1984. Everyone has read it. You fail.
[1:45]  You: you could do the same instead of hiding in a silly box right?
[1:46]  Aminom Marvin: I am.
[1:46]  You: really? on a fomer casino land that is now for sale?
[1:46]  Aminom Marvin: yes. I came here randomly.
[1:46]  Christblade Beresford: oh sorry would be more "chic" If I spoke about V for vendatta?
[1:47]  Aminom Marvin: try the real "OG's" to use your terminology.
[1:48]  Aminom Marvin: Kiz may know them, but I am sure you don't know them gangstaz.
[1:48]  You: ok so you have read one book in your life... and your power point here is?
[1:49]  Aminom Marvin: you are using stupid references from popular media to try to make me look ignorant, but you make yourself look ignorant by not using original stuff.
[1:49]  Christblade Beresford: my power point is that ppl have a right to choose its called free will
[1:49]  Aminom Marvin: Locke, Rousseau, Aquinas. Heard of em?
[1:49]  Christblade Beresford: A God given right
[1:50]  Christblade Beresford: check Genesis oh sorry lost popularity points there didn't I?
[1:50]  Aminom Marvin: where does it say in the Bible that "thou shall double down"?
[1:50]  You: weren't we talking about casinos? you are now showing me your library card
[1:50]  Aminom Marvin: God given right lol
[1:50]  Christblade Beresford: in the bible it speaks against gambling hence why I DON'T gamble
[1:50]  Aminom Marvin: my argument was simply based on what they have done to SL
[1:50]  Aminom Marvin: [1:49] Christblade Beresford: A God given right
[1:51]  Aminom Marvin: [1:50] Christblade Beresford: in the bible it speaks against gambling hence why I DON'T gamble
[1:51]  Aminom Marvin: [1:50] You: [1:49] Christblade Beresford: A God given right
[1:51]  Aminom Marvin: [1:51] You: [1:50] Christblade Beresford: in the bible it speaks against gambling hence why I DON'T gamble
[1:51]  Aminom Marvin: I needed to quote myself to post the CONTRADITION
[1:51]  You: you are confusing me for christblade
[1:51]  You: its spelled " contradiction"
[1:51]  Aminom Marvin: pointing out typos now?
[1:51]  Christblade Beresford: but I do believe ppl have the right to express their free will in as far as comman decency allows
[1:52]  Aminom Marvin: you must truly be at a loss to make a point.
[1:52]  Aminom Marvin: how is milking money from people "commonly decent"?
[1:53]  Christblade Beresford: and a sl casino crosses the boundaries of common decency as much as the lottery or a bingo hall
[1:53]  Aminom Marvin: so you reduce yourself to a relativist to make a point
[1:53]  You: this is a private sim which has been paid for, therefore the owner can do as she/ he pleases
1:53]  Christblade Beresford: make you own choices ppl.... Don't be forced to do otherwise........... Sadly I g2g rl calls
[1:53]  Aminom Marvin: if you buy server space of a US company, you can't host gambling stuff or child porn etc
[1:55]  You: who said we support child porn?
[1:55]  Aminom Marvin: I'm gone. You both are massive fail.
[1:55]  Aminom Marvin: ta-ta
[2:01]  Kiz Flanagan: Oh, last bit of news:
[2:01]  You: sure
[2:01]  Kiz Flanagan: After trading on the WSE was suspended following the gambling ban, WSE has now reopened trading.
[2:02]  Kiz Flanagan: The announcement is on the research area of their webby
[2:02]  You: Oh really
[2:02]  Kiz Flanagan: TC! :)
[2:02]  Kiz Flanagan nods
[2:02]  You: hah
[2:02]  You: thanks for the info Kiz !
[2:02]  Kiz Flanagan: np!

the end,

gala~